47 replies to this topic

[Some Polak]

Hi guys,

It's finally time, I've ordered my first quad! It's just the basics, so don't get too excited... I plan to get the fpv/osd/led and other fun stuff in a few weeks.
I plan to do a full review of each product and a very thorough build log so that newbies just like me can refer to this thread later on and hopefully find some useful nuggets of information.

Now, I've done my fair share of research, got a lot of awesome 2nd opinions, and this is what I have planned:

IMPORTANT UPDATE!

The hexfet controllers are garbage, had 3 fail on me, and the last one took out a motor with it (and nearly my battery too!). Switched to F-30's, and everything is good and happy now.
I basically re-built the quad after that, got a CC3D, a futaba 8FG and a full fpv system (with go-pro hero 2) . Here is the new thread, as the quad is no longer the same. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up.
Pics or it didn't happen:


Other updates:

Went up north for the weekend, logged 1.5 hours of flight time, a lot of impacts, and a few decent (or not) flips. VIDEO!:

Love this frame, super easy to repair (and very hard to break, but you guys know me..)

BUILD DONE!

*Ordered HK shtuff June 13, 2012* - IT"S HERE!


CORE ITEMS:
2x Q450 Glass Fiber Quadcopter Frame 450mm - Cheap at $11, 270g, and looks cool and promising, got 2 so I have spare parts
5x NTM Prop Drive Series 28-26A 1200kv / 250w - These motors have a good rep on HK and here, plus Juz uses them, so they have to be good! (+1 spare)
5x NTM Prop Drive 28 Series Accessory Pack - Gotta get the props attached to the motors and the motors mounted to the frame somehow right? (+1 spare)
1x NTM Prop Drive 2826 Series Replacement Shaft - Just incase I crash hard enough ot bend a motor shaft, I have a spare!
5x Turnigy TY-P1 25Amp HEXFET® Brushless ESC's - I do not reccomend these - read the update log to see why...
1x Turnigy TY-P1 25Amp Brushless ESC Programmer - Before I flash the esc's, I'll use this to program them appropriately
2x Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 3S 45~90C Lipo Pack - recommended by both fmlive and camxbad, so they have to be good!
3x Turnigy Battery Strap 330mm - Gotta strap them lipo's down somehow right?
1x Hobbyking 2-8S Cell Checker with Low Voltage Alarm - Was in stock, has adjustable alarm voltage (2.7v-3.8v /cell), two loud buzzers and a lcd
1x OrangeRx R100 Satellite Receiver - Will try this out with the ZYX-S system to reduce clutter and weight
1x OrangeRx R610 Spektrum DSM2 6Ch 2.4Ghz Receiever - Just incase my old reciever doesn't work, plus it's DSM2, my old one is DSM1
1x ZYX-S 3-Axis Flybarless System w/USB Programmer - New version of the ZYX, has + and X quad mode, and plane mode added. Excited to see how it performs
1x ZYX-S DSM2/DSMJ Satellite Receiver Cable - Cable to connect the system to the Satellite Reciever, to reduce clutter
1x 10CM Male to Male Servo Lead (JR) 26AWG (10pc) - Incase the satelite doesn't work, or if I go with the HK quad board

PROPS:
GEMFAN props - various sizes - Only thing not from HK - As everybody seems to recommend them, I have no choice but to give them a shot!
1x Slow Fly Electric Prop 9047SF (4 pc) - HK sold "Gemfan" props, jbkappirossi says they are the real deal, and that's good enough for me!
1x Slow Fly Electric Prop 9047R SF (4 pc Right) - Same as above, but counter-rotation
1x Slow Fly Electric Prop 9047 SF (4 pc - Green) - Same as above, but green
1x Slow Fly Electric Prop 9047R SF (4 pc - Green Right) - Same as above, but green and counter rotating

CONNECTORS AND MISC
1x Nylon XT60 Connectors Male/Female (5 pairs) - Reccomended by shpoinks, interested to see how they work out
1x PolyMax 3.5mm Gold Connectors 10 PAIRS (20PC) - For my DIY Spider Power Distribution system
1x Wire Mesh Guard Black 6mm (1mtr) - Was cheap, topped of the weight of the order, and braided cables look sweet
1x Turnigy 4mm Heat Shrink Tube - BLACK (1mtr) - Free with connectors, so why not?
1x Turnigy 4mm Heat Shrink Tube - RED (1mtr) - Free with connectors, so why not?
1x Extra Size Cardboard Box and Packing 183g - Gona start collecting these and build a fort!

Shipping weight: 2997g (just under the 3kg shipping option!),
Hobbyking Price: $351.68 (with EMS Express to Canada (MAX 3kg) $61.74)
RC Plane Builder Price: $32.20 (that's 24 various props with shipping)
Total Price: $383.88

The Control system for now will be the ZYX-S 3-Axis Flybarless System since it's a update of the succesful ZYX system, and now suppourts quads in + and X config, as well as airplanes. This will probably go into a HK-450TT Pro V2 Flybarless heli down the road, and I will use a CC3D/CopterControl (depending on availability) in this quad. (or vice versa, depending on which one I will fly more, as the OpenPilot solution is better). So now I will have both the Hobbyking quad controller 2.1 and the ZYX-S, so I can play around with them untill I get my hands on a Openpliot solution.
The thing should weigh ~1000g flying, all in, so not too bad considering each of the motors can push around 900g each respectively with 8in props (from what I've read).

Other than that, I'll be using my Spektrum DX5e for control (until I get a better radio), a AR6000 receiver that I have on hand, or an orange RX from hobbyking if problems arise, a Hobbyking power distribution board *I have been challenged by Golden to make my own power distribution system, and how could I let a challenge like that down?*
I have a Original Venom Pro charger (Rip-off of a lifetime, but got it when I was an rc car newbie), and a cell checker (as well as a good multimeter), so I'm good for lipo support.
I also have purchased a usb programmer for the HK board and the esc's.

I would like to get a second opinion on my setup, as knowing myself, I probably missed something obvious... (although I ordered the parts already, I'll probably have to order more stuff later, so additional tips and tricks are still greatly appreciated).
The way I look at it, I can always get a proven HT-450 frame if HK's cheapie turns out bad, and the motors and esc's are good for most quad applications, so they're transplant-able when I want to upgrade to a fpv frame/setup. I am trying to make sure that all the parts can be upgraded or used in other projects, so that I don't waste any money. And that's what I have so far!

My hope is to get into quads right, and as stated above, to record and post my progress so that newbies like me can refer to this tread and hopefully find some useful info / tips.

Opinions?

BTW, Feel free to be "harsh" as I would like to learn from my mistakes, and to dispel any assumptions that I probably have made. Thanks!
P.S. - Again, thanks ahead of time for anybody that helps out, I appreciate the help and honesty.
P.P.S - The support given so far has been AMAZING! Thanks you guys so much for all of your help, it really and truely is appreciated

*I'll edit this post as I go, so that it will serve as a reference that has correct/up to date info, and so that people won't have to scroll through tonnes of pages to find info.*

Edited by Some Polak, 11 September 2012 - 04:44 AM.

[k_g]

If all newbies did their homework like this.... You'll go far, great start. Fly it, find out what you do and don't like, but it looks like you're more than off and running.

[Some Polak]

If all newbies did their homework like this.... You'll go far, great start. Fly it, find out what you do and don't like, but it looks like you're more than off and running.

Thanks! I've been creeping the forums for a bit, and closely followed KillaX when he built his quad, so I had a bit of a headstart with getting to know the things to look out for.
I also just noticed that all my props are the same colour! I'll either have to come up with a "front" of the quad, or order more props (probably the latter).
As well, I probably need a on-board lipo cut-off/alarm, since I'll disable that on the esc's so that the quad doesn't suddenly have random motors slow down/turn off under heavy acceleration.

Edited by Some Polak, 13 June 2012 - 02:00 AM.

[xtrmtrk]

I spray-paint my front props hunter orange; works great and don't have to worry about having a bunch of different colored props around.

[fmlive]

Suggestion; Start off with the Nanotech 2200 3s batteries. Get 2 or 3 so you can fly and charge and keep on flying. With a simular weight Quad and the same motors 10 inch Gemfly Props I get 10 minutes or better of flying on them.

[BayAreaCrasher]

Welcome eh? (I'm Canadian as well).

Looks like a well researched build. I'd go for GemFan props instead based on my own experience but those props you have look decent to start.

Build it, fly it, crash it and post vids here

[Golden]

I'm not sure how new you are to RC in general, so this may be totally unneeded commentary!

I think your doing the right thing starting with a nice, inexpensive frame from HK. I would really suggest taking the time to try building each component yourself though. What I mean by that is, rather than buy the $3.50 HK power distrbution board try soldering your own from scratch (the Hoverthings PDB is very easy to learn on). Or perhaps take a stab at a power distrobution spider if you are feeling adventurous. It probably sounds silly, but getting your hands dirty on the wiring schematics, and actual building of those, will make learning the underlying concepts a lot easier.

That said, you look more than ready! A very thourough bit of research you did there, which is gonna save you some headache and money down the road. Well done.

Oh, one last thought that I wish I had done when I was starting. Put in one massive order to HK for all the smaller bits and pieces you think you may need. Wires, bullet connectors, deans connectors, shrinkwrap, prop accessory packs, battery velco, Lip safety bag, etc etc etc. HK can take FOREVER, and having the little things on hand from the beginning will save you a lot of waiting.

Goodluck! Looking forward to reading how it comes together.

[camxbad]

I agree on the GemFem prop recommendation...while there may be other more expensive varieties, these have done me well. Try the below site....I fly the 9x4's, and they are only 95 cents, and around $2 shipping..can't beat them. I would order 10 of both standard and reverse. I like to fly with Orange up front, and black in the back. I started with the hobbyking props and they were not balance at all....I've NEVER balanced the gemfems and I don't get any vibration with the 9x4.

http://www.rcplanebuilder.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=12_24

I also agree on the battery recommendation above....you are flying LOS at first, get multiple smaller packs. Even if your flight times may be a tad less, the multiple charged packs will be better than 1 or 2 larger packs.

Do you have "servo" wires to connect between your HK board and receiver? I would also grab a cheap battery strap..I use regular Velcro, and the strap (Turnigy Battery Strap 330mm).

[KillaX]

I'd go for GemFan props instead based on my own experience but those props you have look decent to start.

I also would recommend. I fly GemFan 9 and 10 inch.

[Some Polak]

I spray-paint my front props hunter orange; works great and don't have to worry about having a bunch of different colored props around.

Sounds sweet, the thing is my mind is telling me that spraying the props could possibly get them off balance? I'm just making an assumption, and I would like to be proven wrong. Have you found they stayed true after spraying? If they stay true, I might do that to simply the prop order, as having the back props be the same as the front ones in a X config would mean that with the same amount of props, I could replace either of the 2 instead of having different props for each end, making the time between ordering new props significantly longer with the same budget. Thanks for the tip!

Suggestion; Start off with the Nanotech 2200 3s batteries. Get 2 or 3 so you can fly and charge and keep on flying. With a simular weight Quad and the same motors 10 inch Gemfly Props I get 10 minutes or better of flying on them.

10 minutes of battery life and less weight (so stress on the motors) sounds prefect to me. Thanks for the Suggestion! (Also, when responding to camxbad's post, I realized that I can use these batteries for my future plans of getting a 450 size heli, so they're a perfect fit!)

Welcome eh? (I'm Canadian as well).

Looks like a well researched build. I'd go for GemFan props instead based on my own experience but those props you have look decent to start.

Build it, fly it, crash it and post vids here

Nice to see a fellow Canucks online, I was starting to get worried that I was the only one (just looked at the member map, and I might just have some friends to fly with!), Thanks for the compliments, and a second vote for the Gemfans makes me think they are the right way to go! Might as well, as hobbyking will take some time to ship anyway. My concern was that I would have to pay for shipping from more places, and get things in scattered orders, but it's going to be like that anyways, so might as well get the right parts, right? And don't worry, I'll make sure to record ALL my flights, as the best way to learn what I did wrong is to see it 3rd person! (plus it's super entertaining!) I'll have onboard video as well, so it'll be fun to edit and mash up! Thanks for the ideas!

I'm not sure how new you are to RC in general, so this may be totally unneeded commentary!

I think your doing the right thing starting with a nice, inexpensive frame from HK. I would really suggest taking the time to try building each component yourself though. What I mean by that is, rather than buy the $3.50 HK power distrbution board try soldering your own from scratch (the Hoverthings PDB is very easy to learn on). Or perhaps take a stab at a power distrobution spider if you are feeling adventurous. It probably sounds silly, but getting your hands dirty on the wiring schematics, and actual building of those, will make learning the underlying concepts a lot easier.

That said, you look more than ready! A very thourough bit of research you did there, which is gonna save you some headache and money down the road. Well done.

Oh, one last thought that I wish I had done when I was starting. Put in one massive order to HK for all the smaller bits and pieces you think you may need. Wires, bullet connectors, deans connectors, shrinkwrap, prop accessory packs, battery velco, Lip safety bag, etc etc etc. HK can take FOREVER, and having the little things on hand from the beginning will save you a lot of waiting.

Goodluck! Looking forward to reading how it comes together.

Thanks for all the inspiration! As you might tell, I am not a total newbie in the RC hobby, and I've done a bit of soldering and etching pcb's as well (other hobby is tesla coils and other fun electronics), and building each component by myself sounds like a challenge! Which I may just accept. *hops onto google* After a few minutes of research on power distribution systems, the distribution spider (that I didn't know existed until you told me about it), seems simple, but when you twist the cables, you reduce the EMI for other sensitive components that I may eventually stick on the quad! I am open to learn new things, and making a clean wiring harness sounds like more of an art than anything else! XD Neat cabling jobs look slick, so I will accept your challenge and do my best to make a nice and clean quad! Also, I do plan to make this order massive and throw in all the bells and whistles. Also, I completely forgot about my lipo sack and velcro! As well as bigger heatshrink for re-shrinking the esc's after programming. Thanks for the reminder!

I agree on the GemFem prop recommendation...while there may be other more expensive varieties, these have done me well. Try the below site....I fly the 9x4's, and they are only 95 cents, and around $2 shipping..can't beat them. I would order 10 of both standard and reverse. I like to fly with Orange up front, and black in the back. I started with the hobbyking props and they were not balance at all....I've NEVER balanced the gemfems and I don't get any vibration with the 9x4.

http://www.rcplanebu...dex&cPath=12_24

I also agree on the battery recommendation above....you are flying LOS at first, get multiple smaller packs. Even if your flight times may be a tad less, the multiple charged packs will be better than 1 or 2 larger packs.

Do you have "servo" wires to connect between your HK board and receiver? I would also grab a cheap battery strap..I use regular Velcro, and the strap (Turnigy Battery Strap 330mm).

Genfan "fan" no3, looks like these are really good! XD Thanks for the link, prices look reasonable, and I will probably get 3 sets of 9in, 2 sets of 8in, and 2 sets of 10in, so I can test them to see which ones run best, as well as have them on hand for future projects, or when I add fpv, as adding weight might change which ones work best! Battery pack suggestion #2, and they're only $20, so cheap... and I just realized I can use them in my future plans of getting a 450 size heli! (they're a perfect fit!), so when my quad outgrows them, I'll stick em in my helis! SWEET. I plan to get the 10 pack of "servo" wires with my HK order, yes. (forgot to list them), and I added a few battery straps, very good call. Thanks!

I also would recommend. I fly GemFan 9 and 10 inch.

And vote no4 for the Gemfans! DING DING DING we have a winner! As stated above, I will probably get 3 sets of 9in, 2 sets of 8in, and 2 sets of 10in, just to mess around and find the right balance! Thanks for the input!


Thank you guys! I'm overjoyed to see so much support, and it makes so excited for the quad that I want to order it RIGHT NOW! |*Paul... don't you rush this, do it right!*| <- the guy in my head is keeping me in line... for now

Edited by Some Polak, 13 June 2012 - 06:20 AM.

[shpoinks]

I have done pretty much exactly as you are planning for the last few months... only I started with a timber quad frame, Enthlapy's PMQ, before getting the DJI knock off. Here's what I have learned about your product suggestions:
- like everyone says, buy more stuff than you think you will need. You will need more.
- buy two of the quad frames, one for spares.
- I have the Turnigy prop balancer and I don't like it. Too much friction (If you did ever buy the HK 8 inch props, you can't balance them with it). I don't own one, but most guys reckon the Dubro balancer is the business
- original Deans work pretty well, but the HK versions aren't manufactured to the same standard. They can be an extremely tight fit, almost impossible to pull apart. The XT60 connectors are really nice - they are easier to solder, have a little well for the heat shrink to slot into, and fit together nicely
- in my experience the HK heat shrink isn't worth the money, very thin. Just find a local supplier
- this is a pretty good on-board lipo alarm. Can be used up to 4S, plugs into the balance connector

Order now and get flying!
Pete

[Some Polak]

I have done pretty much exactly as you are planning for the last few months... only I started with a timber quad frame, Enthlapy's PMQ, before getting the DJI knock off. Here's what I have learned about your product suggestions:
- like everyone says, buy more stuff than you think you will need. You will need more.
- buy two of the quad frames, one for spares.
- I have the Turnigy prop balancer and I don't like it. Too much friction (If you did ever buy the HK 8 inch props, you can't balance them with it). I don't own one, but most guys reckon the Dubro balancer is the business
- original Deans work pretty well, but the HK versions aren't manufactured to the same standard. They can be an extremely tight fit, almost impossible to pull apart. The XT60 connectors are really nice - they are easier to solder, have a little well for the heat shrink to slot into, and fit together nicely
- in my experience the HK heat shrink isn't worth the money, very thin. Just find a local supplier
- this is a pretty good on-board lipo alarm. Can be used up to 4S, plugs into the balance connector

Order now and get flying!
Pete

Thanks for all the great info!
I will make sure to order many many spares, as most of my rc's like to create unexpected upgrade opportunities (crashes). I have to add the quantity of items beside the item it's self, as I was thinking for $11, might as well just grab 3-4 of the frames! Great tip, as getting the whole frame is cheaper than getting the arms+body separately. Thanks for the hint on the balancer, I'll get the legit dubro balancer from my LHS, don't want to cheap out on that. I'll take a look into the XT60's, I just assumed (there it is again, me assuming things), that they were cheap and bad quality. Glad to hear they work well, I'll give them a shot. As for the heat shrink, it's free when I get the connectors, so why not? I have a good supply of my own, so no biggie. I've taken a look at the lipo alarm, looks perfect, but it's out of stock, then again all of them are!. I'll figure something out... Thanks for the tips, they're much appreciated.

Edited by Some Polak, 13 June 2012 - 06:42 AM.

[Maineiack]

when i end up with 4 green ones,,
I use a big Black sharpie and color the prop black ill leave one with just green tips,,,usually the right rear

[Some Polak]

when i end up with 4 green ones,,
I use a big Black sharpie and color the prop black ill leave one with just green tips,,,usually the right rear

Hrm, that's so crazy it just might work! I assume the added weight would be less than with spray paint, as well as keeping the surface texture the same. Great idea, thanks!

[jbkappirossi]

Apperently most people who replied about the Gemfans haven't orderd the ones on HK yet, cause all these (except a few 5'') are Gemfan Props!!
http://www.hobbyking...Propellers.html

[berthrsd]

Get the q450 version with the integrated PDB, saves some trouble with the cabling... And its just a few bucks more. Then get the standard version for spare arms.

[Some Polak]

Apperently most people who replied about the Gemfans haven't orderd the ones on HK yet, cause all these (except a few 5'') are Gemfan Props!!
http://www.hobbyking...Propellers.html

Thanks for the heads up! Have you personally ordered them? I just read some of the reviews, and they seem to be gemfans, but I'm not 100% sure. I will order them and the gemfans from the other site, and compare them to see! It would be great if they were! (worst case scenario, I have extra props for my crash kit!)

[Some Polak]

Get the q450 version with the integrated PDB, saves some trouble with the cabling... And its just a few bucks more. Then get the standard version for spare arms.

I have decided to go without the integrated PDB, as I will probably build a spider distribution system to try to eliminate EMI for things that I will get down the road. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm going to crash this thing many many times, so I would prefer bullet connectors to connect the esc's, as that reduces the chance of damage to the esc's. Great idea to save money though, as the non-PDB kit is cheaper than getting the arms and core separately. Thanks!

[jbkappirossi]

Thanks for the heads up! Have you personally ordered them? I just read some of the reviews, and they seem to be gemfans, but I'm not 100% sure. I will order them and the gemfans from the other site, and compare them to see! It would be great if they were! (worst case scenario, I have extra props for my crash kit!)

Yes they are, with the name imprinted. And as far as i can tell the real ones. I was pretty amazed that they all where pretty much 99% ballanced.

[Some Polak]

Yes they are, with the name imprinted. And as far as i can tell the real ones. I was pretty amazed that they all where pretty much 99% ballanced.

Ah, good call. I ordered the other ones anyway (like the orange), but I will grab 1 set of hk's (the 9inch ones, so that'll be 8 sets of props total.. I'm ready to crash many many times XD)