826 replies to this topic

[Enthlapy]

Thanks for the links. Anyone have any ezosd iPhone app info?

We tried on Daves setup but we ran 900 VTx and were getting a bunch of lost packets. However since then there was an update for the firmware but havnt looked into it since.

[garbungel]

5.8 is fine for flying around a park with 2.4 control. you'll learn as you go along . if you have problems with failsafes it's time for a high pass filter(5.8) or to get rid of 2.4.

if you fly other crafts and don't want UHF for all of them that's very doable. mine is set up to switch between 72mhz ppm, 2.4ghz and dragon link

2.4ghz is great in non suburbal areas.....when I look most of your videos chatch between houses I think you won't come far with 2.4ghz. I have a spectrum dx7 and tested it in the woods and I came further than 1km without any problems and even through trees, but where I live in very crowdy area and a lots of wifi I don't make it further than 300m.

Edited by garbungel, 21 May 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[johnnycat500]

Last weekend I attempted my 3rd fpv flight but, when it gets 100 ft away I loose video. Spent 2.5 hours walking that 20 acre field till I found it. a few days ago I did a range test. I had video at about 1/4 mile away but if I tilted my head up and down I would loose video.I have the HK 5.8 starter package with fatshark predators and 100mw vtx with the stock antenna's. Tried again today and same thing. Not going to try until I can get some good antenna's. I guess It will be awhile sense I can't find anyone that has them in stock. I have the stuff to try making some but that might be a little over my head. Is there anything I should try?

[Maineiack]

Last weekend I attempted my 3rd fpv flight but, when it gets 100 ft away I loose video. Spent 2.5 hours walking that 20 acre field till I found it. a few days ago I did a range test. I had video at about 1/4 mile away but if I tilted my head up and down I would loose video.I have the HK 5.8 starter package with fatshark predators and 100mw vtx with the stock antenna's. Tried again today and same thing. Not going to try until I can get some good antenna's. I guess It will be awhile sense I can't find anyone that has them in stock. I have the stuff to try making some but that might be a little over my head. Is there anything I should try?

go here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=103113
scroll down
build the cloverleaf and the skew-planer, clover on yr copter, skew on yr RX,

[johnnycat500]

Thanks for the link Maineiack...much appreciated

[ov3rmind]

Last weekend I attempted my 3rd fpv flight but, when it gets 100 ft away I loose video. Spent 2.5 hours walking that 20 acre field till I found it. a few days ago I did a range test. I had video at about 1/4 mile away but if I tilted my head up and down I would loose video.I have the HK 5.8 starter package with fatshark predators and 100mw vtx with the stock antenna's. Tried again today and same thing. Not going to try until I can get some good antenna's. I guess It will be awhile sense I can't find anyone that has them in stock. I have the stuff to try making some but that might be a little over my head. Is there anything I should try?

Before you get carried away with building all those for 5.8, ask yourself just how much further you'd like to go beyond that 100ft. Even with some really good antennas, don't expect the same range and penetration with 5.8 as with 1280 for example. However, if an extra few hundred feet max is all you're looking for, then trying to upgrade your 5.8 instead of going to 1280 makes solid sense.

Most of the folks on our team use 5.8 only as a wireless link to a 1280 ground station. Investing in cpl as maineiack suggested is still worthwhile, even if you only use it that way too.

[johnnycat500]

Thanks for the info. Can 1280 be used with 2.4 tx

[Steverino]

I just ordered this OSD from HobbyKing for just $40.70. I intend to flash the firmware with CL-OSD which is open source OSD firmware that provides the following features:

• 3 Voltage inputs (one of two inputs can be used for RSSI)

• GPS data
  
  • Lat, Long pos
  • Speed
  • Altitude
  • Time (UTC)
  • Date
  • Bearing
  • Satelites
  • Fix or not
• Home calculations
  
  • Distance to home
  • Bearing to home
  • Altitude above home
  • Arrow home
  • Auto set home position (Also manual)
• Support for imperial units

You can't beat the price. I can flash the firmware with the same USBavr programmer I used to flash SimonK firmware on my ESCs and KaptainKuk firmware on my KK Board, I really think an OSD will help me learn to fly FPV. I know its recommended for a noob to start out with the very basics, but I think an OSD will help me, especially since I am new. I've only tried FPV just a couple of times so far but I've had a hard time knowing if the quad is level and where it is in relation to me and the ground. The result has been I either crash it or loose it. The OSD should help me because I'll know the altitude, the LOS distance and speed and I'll also be able to find it if I loose it. I've also ordered a DVR so I'll have a recording of my flight to assist me in finding it if I do loose it. This past weekend I tried FPV for the second time and I quickly got to close to the ground and crashed it. I decided to fly it higher thinking about the old saying altitude is your friend. It was over 1000 acres of farmland so I didn't think I could loose it. I flew it too fast, too high and too far and got lost over fields that all looked alike. My wife was my spotter and she couldn't see the quad because it was in the sunlight, When I got closer to the ground I got too close and lost the video signal and crashed. I was using these CP antennas. I found the quadcopter after several hours of looking and this is the second time I've lost it trying FPV and it's only my second time flying FPV. I'm not going to let this happen again. The OSD and DVR should help. I also know I need to stay within 50 feet of the ground. I think I'll do much better when I get a CC3D board. I'm really looking forward to that.

I realize I need a some practice. I've been trying to decide on a sim that will do FPV preferably with quadcopter models. I have an old version of RealFlight(3.3 I think) and it has "cockpit view" which is FPV but no quadcopters and it doesn't work with my radio. I tried Phoenix LOS with the Gaui 330 and it was just too easy to be realistic, but good for learning orientation. I can fly my KK board LOS nose out pretty well but I suck at flying FPV and I need some practice. I'm leaning toward buying AeroSim and the 2 minute demo is good, but I still find it much easier than flying my KK board FPV. I'd love to hear what sims others here use.

I'm almost hesitant to post my embarrassing video from this weekend because I know I'll probably get some criticism(SesmicWave) but in my defense I was flying over a unpopulated area so I was only risking my quadcopter. I'm here to learn and I hope others here learn from my mistakes so here's the video:

Edited by Steverino, 30 May 2012 - 06:50 AM.

[garbungel]

You were not that far actually and you had a pretty good landmarks over there like the very specific row of trees in front and behind of you. I also fly without GPS since my skylark overheated once and almost put my quad on fire, but nowadays I never have problems with orientation, but did have problems in the very beginning when I was too much thinking how to fly instead of enjoying flying.
I can imagine the panix you had.....I also had the same thing once, but my spotter helped me.

Edited by garbungel, 30 May 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[Steverino]

Thanks for the info. Can 1280 be used with 2.4 tx

Sure. Plenty of people use 2.4Ghz for their radio control and FPV video at 1280 without any problems. I have this setup and I haven't noticed any interference. However I do keep the video tx and my AR8000 RX on opposite sides of the quad and I use a low pass filter on the video tx antenna and an LC filter on the video tx power because I'm running off of one battery right now. My FPV video is very clean and I seem to have good range with the RC link.

[Steverino]

In this postabout my lost quadcopter:

The trick for FPV is to use a step up/down regulator so your video lasts until the battery is completely destroyed and put a voltage alarm on the battery. Doing this only adds about 20 grams of weight and your failsafe systems are more failure proof as well. Take for example the battery coming off your quad in a crash, you will never hear the loss of signal alarm because it does not have power anymore, but if you have a low voltage alarm, it will come off with the battery and beep until the battery is dead (tape it to the battery). If the battery stays connected then you will get video down to the last amp in the battery and you will be able to get GPS coordinates. GPS on your OSD is not particularly useful unless you are recording the coordinates, because you will never remember 2 x 10 digit numbers when crashing.

I'm quoting Reddog here because I think this thread is better suited for the topic.
Where can I buy a step up/down regulator? Or is this something I can make and if so, how?

[Steverino]

You were not that far actually and you had a pretty good landmarks over there like the very specific row of trees in front and behind of you. I also fly without GPS since my skylark overheated once and almost put my quad on fire, but nowadays I never have problems with orientation, but did have problems in the very beginning when I was too much thinking how to fly instead of enjoying flying.
I can imagine the panix you had.....I also had the same thing once, but my spotter helped me.

I was unfamiliar with the area and I should have taken a good look around and studied all the landmarks before I took off. I think it also would have been a good idea to study Google Earth and understand what the area looked like from the air. A good spotter could have helped me immensely. While I take responsibility for loosing the quad, my wife just isn't a very good spotter. But in her defense, the quad did fly right into the sun she couldn't see it for a while. But then she got frustrated and stopped video taping and I think she gave up on looking at it. Before it disappeared in the sun, our conversation was like this: She says "your too far, come back". I see the river and I turn it left which I know will bring it toward us. The she says "your getting further away", I ask which way is it going and she says it's going further away and I need to turn around. I get confused and wonder if I'm seeing the river I think I'm seeing and I start turning and looking around. Later I found out she meant I was gaining altitude, not going the wrong way. She also gets confused about left and right and refuses to use those directions. Then she gets emotional and just gives up. She was pretty sure she saw it come down in a line of trees 1/2 mile away but she wasn't positive she even saw it come down. I spent a few hours searching on both sides of that line of trees. I thought it had probably landed on the other side of the line of trees and the trees had blocked my video signal. The quad was actually only 1700 feet away which was not even close to that line of trees. If I had had a spotter who stayed calm and watched where it came down at, I would have found it in a few minutes. I'm not blaming my wife. I knew she wasn't a good spotter but she was the only person I could use at the time. I learned some valuable lessons and I'll be much better prepared next time.

[comster]

I learned some valuable lessons and I'll be much better prepared next time.

Maybe this conversation should be moved out of **FPV Guides For Success**....

I'm very glad you got your quad back. I'm not sure you are learning the right lessons from the experience though.

It's really wonderful that your wife joins and spots for you flying FPV. That's just golden, don't knock it. But when she said you were too far away, you didn't turn back. No spotter can give directions to a tiny quad that dropped down out of sight.

Seems like you didn't have enough control to keep it close by. Or enough throttle/altitude control to keep it from sailing far up or coming down into the ground.

An OSD with GPS isn't the solution at all. You just need to practice basics in a much less ambitious setting.

Actually, I don't really believe in simulators, myself. Before any multirotors, I had a Syma S107, and it's really neat and convenient for indoors. Consider trying it out, and it should help your throttle control immensely. Make sure you have full control of direction, speed, and height flying the quad around your neighborhood before going out again for FPV soaring. Seems you're not there yet, but I don't know by how much.

It all depends on your goals. You have lots of cool gear installed in a snazzy machine and must enjoy building and the intellectual part of it. But you are on track to lose a machine and still not end up with very satisfactory video or flying experiences. Maybe the farmers out there are your buddies and don't mind crunching some lost copters in their combines. But most people take more care to avoid the inconvenience and expense and wind up getting to cool flying and videos faster with a more considered pace.

Just trying to give useful advice, but unfortunately it comes out as a lecture. Good luck.

[Steverino]

Maybe this conversation should be moved out of **FPV Guides For Success**....

Since I'm trying to learn to fly FPV, I don't know why this should be moved, but if the mods agree, that's fine.

Before any multirotors, I had a Syma S107, and it's really neat and convenient for indoors. Consider trying it out, and it should help your throttle control immensely.

I actually started out with a Syma S107 and I now have a Blade mQx. I've gotten pretty good at los flying but FPV is a different story.

An OSD with GPS isn't the solution at all. You just need to practice basics in a much less ambitious setting.

I think the OSD with GPS will help me by giving me feedback about what altitude the quad is at and how fast it's moving, how far away it is and it will also help me from getting lost and help me find it if I do loose it. I realize I need to practice FPV a lot more. My time is very limited and I only find the opportunity to fly about once a week.

Just trying to give useful advice, but unfortunately it comes out as a lecture.

I really appreciate your advice. Thank you.

[Reddog]

In this postabout my lost quadcopter:
I'm quoting Reddog here because I think this thread is better suited for the topic.
Where can I buy a step up/down regulator? Or is this something I can make and if so, how?

You can buy the AnyVolt Micro step up/down from here (max .5amps) - http://www.dimension...s/anyvolt-micro

You can buy another step up/down regulator from here (can supply 2 amps but has more noise) - http://www.foxtechfp...d-2a-p-200.html

[garbungel]

I was unfamiliar with the area and I should have taken a good look around and studied all the landmarks before I took off. I think it also would have been a good idea to study Google Earth and understand what the area looked like from the air. A good spotter could have helped me immensely. While I take responsibility for loosing the quad, my wife just isn't a very good spotter. But in her defense, the quad did fly right into the sun she couldn't see it for a while. But then she got frustrated and stopped video taping and I think she gave up on looking at it. Before it disappeared in the sun, our conversation was like this: She says "your too far, come back". I see the river and I turn it left which I know will bring it toward us. The she says "your getting further away", I ask which way is it going and she says it's going further away and I need to turn around. I get confused and wonder if I'm seeing the river I think I'm seeing and I start turning and looking around. Later I found out she meant I was gaining altitude, not going the wrong way. She also gets confused about left and right and refuses to use those directions. Then she gets emotional and just gives up. She was pretty sure she saw it come down in a line of trees 1/2 mile away but she wasn't positive she even saw it come down. I spent a few hours searching on both sides of that line of trees. I thought it had probably landed on the other side of the line of trees and the trees had blocked my video signal. The quad was actually only 1700 feet away which was not even close to that line of trees. If I had had a spotter who stayed calm and watched where it came down at, I would have found it in a few minutes. I'm not blaming my wife. I knew she wasn't a good spotter but she was the only person I could use at the time. I learned some valuable lessons and I'll be much better prepared next time.

So it was your wife that confused you ;P. It is very difficult for a spotter to see where the quad is. I once took my dad to do spotting for me while I was flying very far and he started yelling to me that I was going into the powerlines which were actually a mile further.
I think the best thing is to first hover and practice around you before you go further.

[Steverino]

You can buy the AnyVolt Micro step up/down from here (max .5amps) - http://www.dimension...s/anyvolt-micro
You can buy another step up/down regulator from here (can supply 2 amps but has more noise) - http://www.foxtechfp...d-2a-p-200.html

Great! Thanks for that information. I just want to make sure I understand. You said "The trick for FPV is to use a step up/down regulator so your video lasts until the battery is completely destroyed and put a voltage alarm on the battery."
Just to make sure I completely understand, without a step up/down voltage regulator the video will quit working before the battery has completely died because the voltage will drop below then minimum voltage neccessary for video. Therefore the regulator allows the video to last longer. Correct? I'm currently running off of one battery and it seems this may be advantageous with the regulator since it will be using the larger battery rather than a smaller FPV battery. Is that correct, or do you think two batteries is better? I set my Spektrum AR800 fail safe to slow down the motor RPM rather than stop the motors when the radio control signal is lost. This allows the quad to float down rather than fall. The problem with this is the motors keep running after it's on the ground and this uses up the battery and the video goes dead much faster. I think I'm going to change the fail safe back to the factory settings which will cause the motors to stop if the radio control signal is lost so my battery won't get used up. I've read the Copter Control boards have a fail safe setting that will slow down RMSs and let the quad float to the ground rather than falling if the RC link is lost. Does the CopterControl board sense that the quad has stopped falling and turn off the motors when it's on the ground? I'll be getting a CopterControl board as soon as one is availabe for me to purchase. My KK board has just stopped working so I'm grounded until I get something to replace it with.

I hope I haven't gotten off topic in this FPV Guides For Success thread. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about FPV and others can benefit from my experience. I really appreciate the help the members of this board have given me.

[CrispyCargo]

Can 1280 be used with 2.4 tx

You sure can, but as Steverino mentioned, USE A FILTER! or this might happen (like it did to me!):

[TheOtherCliff]

Most 12V FPV transmitters work with reduced range, down to about 8 to 10 volts. Most 12V CCD cameras (that I have used) work well at even less voltage.

Note that all this assumes that your FPV stuff is designed for 12 volts. If you are not certain that your stuff is 12 volts, get certain before doing ANYTHING with your FPV stuff.

If you are using a single 3 cell LiPo to power both your main motors and your FPV, the main motors will usually die first. 3 cell LiPos have very little power left at 10 volts. With a helicopter in a hover, the final battery drop off will be quick, noticable, and quite possibly damaging. You should feel less power, then you will start to drift down and sometime in there, the video may go out if you hit full throttle to try to stay in the air. Obviously, you don't want to make a practice of ruining your LiPos by over discharging them like this. The lower you were to start with, the less damage.

If you are flying an airplane, when the battery dies, you just cut back to motor off and glide and the battery usually has plenty enough left to power the BEC, receiver, servos, and FPV for several minutes at least. The higher you were to start with, the more likely you can make it back to the runway or some other findable area.

The one FPV time that I actually ran a single battery setup to drop off was with an airplane. I kept adding power because I didn't know what was happening. The FPV worked all the way to the ground. I just landed it in a field close by (300m). I damaged a cell in that pack.

YMMV. Some video transmitters drop out at a higher voltage than others. I suggest that you try running your 12V FPV off of a fully charged 2 cell pack (8.4V). If it works, you know you have video way after the main motors give out. If it doesn't work, find some other voltage source, say a 10% charged 8 cell nicad RC transmitter pack at 9.6 volts to test with...

Cliff

[TheOtherCliff]

Thanks for the info. Can 1280 be used with 2.4 tx

You sure can, but as Steverino mentioned, USE A FILTER! or this might happen (like it did to me!):

Be aware that the third order harmonic of long range RC transmitters on 433mhz hits 1280mhz almost dead on. This means that you need to have some space between your FPV receiver and your RC transmitter on the ground. It may even help to get a 433mhz low pass filter for your RC transmitter.

I don't use 433mhz myself, but I have heard that separation, and no interconnecting cables (e.g. common power source), is generally good enough. Range test of FPV with RC on and off should not show significant video range difference.

Cliff